1 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:01,280 LOVE WITHOUT FEAR 2 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:12,240 I've been asked to participate in a film about AIDS. 3 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,120 I've heard and read a little about this disease, 4 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:17,720 and talked about it too. 5 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:22,240 There are statistics, figures, and I know, 6 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:25,760 that they mask stories of disease and death. 7 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:30,320 But what does it have to do with me, with me personally? 8 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:32,560 I don't feel affected. 9 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:34,960 It's the same for many others. 10 00:01:35,320 --> 00:01:36,680 What should we say? 11 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:39,080 Here's a new, dangerous disease. 12 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:41,120 Our behaviours need to change. 13 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:42,840 There are things 14 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:44,320 to learn, again. 15 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:45,280 Prescriptions 16 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:46,960 and limitations, again. 17 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:50,760 We obey, for the sake of reason. 18 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,480 But what does reason have to do with sex? 19 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:58,400 Who wants to be told what to do? 20 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:15,520 Here, love can start. 21 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,760 But someone could also pick you up here, for one night. 22 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:26,120 Sleeping with someone I don't love isn't for me. 23 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:27,200 But... 24 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:29,520 If you're really lonely, 25 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:32,240 and you meet someone you really like... 26 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:36,200 Would I think of AIDS then? 27 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:39,280 Do you need to protect yourself from AIDS? 28 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:40,760 Actually, no. 29 00:02:40,920 --> 00:02:41,920 Why not? 30 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:45,240 - You have no special friend? - Yes, I do. 31 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,120 So why do you think you need no protection? 32 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:52,560 Well, because my girlfriend is normal. 33 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:55,320 - Normal people can't catch it? - What? 34 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:56,760 Normals can't catch it? 35 00:02:56,920 --> 00:02:59,920 Yes, they can. But at least, the missus's clean. 36 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:04,200 I have a steady boyfriend. I can't see... I don't need to. 37 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:06,280 - What about you? - Same. 38 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:10,400 Otherwise, I'd use condoms. Well, not me, the guy. 39 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:12,880 - For me personally, no. - Why not? 40 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:15,520 Well, you know... No time left. 41 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:19,680 I'll be tied down from Wednesday, that's it for me. 42 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:23,080 If you do it right, I have no fear. 43 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:27,920 - What does "doing it right" mean? - Being faithful or using condoms. 44 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,600 For some people, it's a huge risk. 45 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:34,920 I used to live differently too but I wouldn't repeat that now. 46 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:38,080 To me, it's important to talk about it, 47 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:41,000 because you don't know, all the foreigners... 48 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:42,360 So many come here. 49 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:46,360 If you go steady, and you know exactly who you've been with, 50 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:47,760 then it's no problem. 51 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:52,520 I wouldn't say AIDS is a big issue for many people here. 52 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,360 Many can more or less control themselves. 53 00:03:55,640 --> 00:04:00,080 I have a steady girl. I'm becoming a father and stuff. 54 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:04,240 I don't need to use condoms or whatever. 55 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:06,040 I'm feeling rather safe. 56 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:08,000 You'll never go off the rail? 57 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:11,600 In principle, no, I'd say. 58 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:14,240 And if you did, would you use a condom? 59 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:15,320 I guess not. 60 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:17,880 Because it's nonsense. 61 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:19,400 And you? 62 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,040 I fucking don't care. 63 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:24,840 You fucking don't care about AIDS or... 64 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:27,800 Problem is... It's her problem, not mine. 65 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:34,400 What allegedly good reasons 66 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:38,040 do we use to push AIDS to the back of our conscience? 67 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:41,560 We assume AIDS always befalls the others. 68 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:45,080 But it's transmitted by people who love each other, 69 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:48,200 or at least when they love each other. 70 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:53,560 Sure, in a true, faithful relationship, AIDS is not an issue. 71 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,280 But what if you break up? 72 00:04:57,880 --> 00:04:59,880 What if you're still looking for someone? 73 00:05:00,280 --> 00:05:02,240 Then there's still a risk. 74 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:08,040 I can't imagine living and loving with no risk. 75 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:11,400 But where does carelessness begin? 76 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:23,760 The more I delve into this subject, 77 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:25,880 the less I can ignore it. 78 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:30,440 I often think about when and with whom I slept, 79 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:34,000 and with whom he did, and with whom he or she did. 80 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:36,720 It makes you feel unsecure. 81 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:41,120 Still, we agreed this film shouldn't frighten anyone, 82 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:44,320 because fear can't protect you. 83 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:47,600 DR. A. SCHOLZ HEAD OF DERMATOLOGY 84 00:05:48,840 --> 00:05:52,240 Is it possible for the patient to impact 85 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,160 the disease in any way, 86 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,400 or the course of the disease? 87 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:01,960 In addition to the patient's personal attitude and outlook, 88 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:07,000 it's very important to have regular medical check-ups. 89 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:09,800 That's why we have set up 90 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:14,240 what we call "AIDS advice centres" in each district of the GDR. 91 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,280 Here, on the one hand, 92 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:21,000 when patients have been diagnosed as HIV-positive, 93 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:23,720 they get medical advice. 94 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,160 When an infection turns up, it's handled immediately, 95 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:30,920 so as not to strain their immune system for too long. 96 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:35,360 On the other hand, there are numerous psychosocial issues 97 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:40,280 they experience after discovering that they're HIV-positive. 98 00:06:40,840 --> 00:06:42,280 When someone's in doubt, 99 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:46,400 would you advise them to have an HIV test? 100 00:06:46,840 --> 00:06:51,040 I feel nervous or hesitant, just thinking 101 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,160 of directly getting a test. 102 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:56,520 I always try to do it indirectly, when donating blood, 103 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:00,320 because I fear those intimate questions. 104 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:01,920 I'd have to admit then, 105 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:06,920 that I've slept with people I actually didn't really know, 106 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:10,880 without telling them: "We barely know each other, use a condom." 107 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,560 That's exactly what we don't want you to do. 108 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,240 When you donate blood, 109 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:20,160 which you should do, it's a very good thing... 110 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,400 But for us doctors... 111 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:26,240 Actually, you should trust us doctors. 112 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:31,360 It's important that this conversation... Is your fear legitimate? 113 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:35,080 Have some of your prejudices grown out of proportion 114 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,040 and developed into fear? 115 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:42,120 We always have this conversation before doing an HIV test. 116 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:46,520 I'd like to add that you need to wait 6 weeks... 117 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:51,080 There must be a waiting period after unprotected intercourse 118 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:55,040 with someone you had suspicions about. 119 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,040 Then we can perform the test. 120 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:03,440 And let's address a theme that comes up regularly in the press: 121 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:05,600 anonymity. 122 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,600 The lab analysing your blood sample 123 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:12,560 will never use your name and address. 124 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:17,160 They will provide you with a code, and then we'll... 125 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,440 We'll be able to identify your sample. 126 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:25,480 I kind of feel that many youth turn away from AIDS as an issue. 127 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:29,560 Do you have the same experience in your work? 128 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,640 Over the past 2 years, 129 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:36,800 we've given numerous lectures in our own area, 130 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,760 and we've had many discussions. 131 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:43,320 We've conveyed information through the media. 132 00:08:43,560 --> 00:08:46,760 We see AIDS 133 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:50,720 as one type of sexually-transmitted disease, 134 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:54,920 because that's the most common mode of transmission here. 135 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:57,400 In these discussions, 136 00:08:57,560 --> 00:09:01,880 and in the course of the disease, we see 137 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:06,200 that, over the past 2 years, there have been shifts in behaviour. 138 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:08,120 - Positive ones? - Yes. 139 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:10,200 People have become more careful, 140 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:12,560 or, something we need to count too, 141 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:14,560 they have used more condoms. 142 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:18,200 It means that the almost forgotten "rubber protection" 143 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:22,640 is decidedly being used against STDs again. 144 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:27,320 It's also the most crucial piece of info we can give about AIDS: 145 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:29,400 STDs can only be impacted 146 00:09:29,560 --> 00:09:33,120 through personal responsibility toward your partner. 147 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,920 We can protect ourselves against AIDS. 148 00:09:47,560 --> 00:09:50,240 A little rubber shouldn't be an issue. 149 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:55,080 Theoretically, I realise that. But practically... 150 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:57,240 It starts with buying 151 00:09:57,520 --> 00:09:58,480 the thing. 152 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:01,600 I'd like a bag of coffee. 153 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:03,400 - Moccafix? - Yes. 154 00:10:03,560 --> 00:10:04,600 Anything else? 155 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:07,400 I'd like to buy condoms. 156 00:10:07,560 --> 00:10:09,280 Which ones would you like? 157 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:11,720 I don't know the types. 158 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:14,000 I'll show you. 159 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:18,720 We have Mondos Feucht, Gold, 160 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:20,760 Luxus and Perfekt. 161 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:22,120 Or Spezial. 162 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:26,520 What's the difference? 163 00:10:26,680 --> 00:10:29,400 - These are moister and these are dryer. - OK. 164 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:33,520 - How many pieces in a package? - 3 here and 1 there. 165 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:35,520 How much do they cost? 166 00:10:35,680 --> 00:10:38,000 This is 2 Mark and this is 1.65. 167 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:42,360 That's just 1. 168 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:45,680 Well, then... 169 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,760 - I'd like 2 of these. - Yes. 170 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:04,760 Before sleeping together, 171 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:09,680 there's a moment when you decide whether to be safe or not. 172 00:11:10,560 --> 00:11:14,040 If you miss it and keep quiet for fear of ruining the mood, 173 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,600 it may have already happened. 174 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,120 You don't need much courage though, 175 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:24,120 just the confidence to say: 176 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:27,160 "Listen, because I care for you, 177 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:28,560 "let's be safe." 178 00:11:29,680 --> 00:11:33,480 It's better than uncertainty and self-blame afterwards. 179 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:38,480 Or is it still true that: "Love is blind"? 180 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:55,600 I'd like to introduce myself. I'm Udo Zobel. 181 00:11:56,200 --> 00:12:00,480 I work at the AIDS discussion group at the Courage work alliance. 182 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:04,080 This AIDS discussion group started in 1987. 183 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:09,040 It was actually founded 184 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:13,680 to give advice and care to people affected by AIDS. 185 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:18,320 And we do prevention work 186 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:22,000 through lectures 187 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,040 educational events, distribution of flyers... 188 00:12:25,560 --> 00:12:30,280 I've taken on the lecture part to open the dialogue with people, 189 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,960 talking about the pros and cons of specific things. 190 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:37,720 We've heard the key points, we think we know it all. 191 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:38,840 We'll see 192 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:43,240 how concrete questions bring out fears, fear of physical contact, 193 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:44,920 and inhibitions. 194 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,760 We know precisely about transmission paths. 195 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:51,520 It happens mainly through anal and vaginal intercourse, 196 00:12:51,680 --> 00:12:54,120 and oral intercourse, with the mouth, OK? 197 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:55,120 Gays do that. 198 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:58,920 Why are they particularly in danger? You say "gays". 199 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:00,840 Well, because... 200 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,840 Because, in principle, they're the carriers. 201 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:07,160 - They're the carriers. - Yes? 202 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:10,160 They infect themselves, so to say, 203 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:12,920 then they can transmit it forward. 204 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:14,320 Women can too. 205 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:16,640 You can get it from anybody and pass it on. 206 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:20,760 Don't blame it on the gays, saying: "It's their fault". It isn't. 207 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:24,120 You can't say: "They're gay, yuck, they invented AIDS." 208 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:25,240 They didn't. 209 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:29,560 The virus doesn't care at all whether you're a man, a woman 210 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:30,800 or a child. 211 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,880 The main thing is, there are prerequisites to getting infected. 212 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:38,160 Infected body fluids must get in contact with your blood. 213 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:40,400 Safer sex means 214 00:13:40,560 --> 00:13:45,560 no unprotected vaginal, anal or oral intercourse. 215 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:48,680 There's an old means, actually not old, 216 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:51,040 something has become modern again... 217 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:54,360 What's its name? Condom, sheath, rubber... 218 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:56,520 It has so many names. 219 00:13:56,680 --> 00:13:57,560 We know it. 220 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:00,360 We've blown it out, filled it with water, 221 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:03,200 annoyed people with it, who didn't? 222 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:08,120 But when it comes to really using it... We won't practice for real here though. 223 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:10,360 I've brought a few condoms. 224 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:13,280 I'm going to hand them out. 225 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:17,400 Here, take it. You can have one too. 226 00:14:17,560 --> 00:14:18,400 Here you go. 227 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:21,240 Over there, at the back. 228 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:23,280 Here you are. 229 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:28,240 Who's going to dare show how to use it properly? 230 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:30,720 Show us then, roll it on and show... 231 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:32,800 Use your fingers, maybe. Show us. 232 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:37,040 Let's go. 233 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:39,920 Check out whether he's doing it right. 234 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:43,720 Well, if you do it like this, there's a great hazard. 235 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:45,240 It could leak, yes. 236 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:48,560 For me, there should be some air in your mate there. 237 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:50,320 Your mate! 238 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:53,400 I mean, be logical, look at the device. 239 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:57,120 - There's a doodad here, in front. - What's it called? 240 00:14:57,280 --> 00:14:58,920 - No idea. - A reservoir. 241 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:02,520 - Exactly, like a... - A catch basin. 242 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:06,920 So if you put it on too tightly, your load can't get out, I mean... 243 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:10,080 Then it's somehow... 244 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:13,520 Either you tear it off or... I mean... 245 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:16,360 - Like I said... - It's rubbish? 246 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:18,320 You need, you need to... 247 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:20,120 You need some room. 248 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:21,920 I've brought a few photos. 249 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:23,920 You can look at "real life". 250 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:27,920 I'm going to stand up. 251 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:31,080 Like we said... Can we... 252 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:33,080 Let's get on with it. 253 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:37,160 The member should be really stiff, erected. 254 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:38,840 That's... In German... 255 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:40,760 Then you can pull it on, 256 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:42,760 and look, squeeze at the top. 257 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:45,120 There should be no air bubble left. 258 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:46,920 So squeeze at the top. 259 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,760 Some hold it with their fist, others like this, 260 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:51,800 whatever's comfortable for you. 261 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:54,080 Then roll it down, you got that right, 262 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:56,080 roll it down tightly. 263 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:59,720 On this prevention topic, they say you should include it 264 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,560 into sexual foreplay but... 265 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:07,640 Well, either I would, I don't know, laugh out of insecurity or... 266 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,840 I can't imagine how to do it so that... 267 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,960 Manual skills are involved somehow. 268 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:18,160 Arousal won't last forever, if I tear it open now, 269 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:19,840 then it's too late. 270 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:21,280 Practice makes perfect. 271 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:24,000 How do you practice? In front of a mirror? 272 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:25,520 Won't help. 273 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:29,320 Make an effort, use your imagination, that kind of thing. 274 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:33,920 I think they should be free. Others can think otherwise. 275 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:36,000 The issue is: do people use it? 276 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,960 You're right but let's assume you don't have much dough left, 277 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:43,640 Do you buy this or 10 bread rolls with your last Mark? 278 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,120 OK, don't be cross now. 279 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:48,160 You meet someone, right? 280 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:50,320 Then tell me... I mean... 281 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:54,520 It could be, couldn't it? And when you think about this topic... 282 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:56,400 You get to know them better... 283 00:16:57,680 --> 00:16:59,160 But this topic is rejected, 284 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:00,840 totally rejected, 285 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:02,000 talking about it. 286 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:05,200 "Are you stupid or what?" That's the answer I got. 287 00:17:05,360 --> 00:17:06,680 Or 288 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:09,960 "No, not that. Shall we do it or... What time is it?" 289 00:17:10,120 --> 00:17:12,080 Or nothing at all. It's like that. 290 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:15,360 You feel silly when you tell a girl: "Wait." 291 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:18,080 Silently, right? 292 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:20,760 Now the girl thinks: "Is he nutty or what?" 293 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,640 You don't know what she thinks about it. 294 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:27,800 If she says: "I'd rather do it with a condom", then good, 295 00:17:28,360 --> 00:17:30,040 let's do it with a condom. 296 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:34,680 But you feel ashamed... Both partners feel ashamed, I'd say. 297 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:36,280 Bear it in mind. 298 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:38,840 Well, you collect experiences, right? 299 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:41,880 And AIDS wasn't around yet. 300 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:44,440 Naturally, I didn't take the pill, etc. 301 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:47,080 Why does the woman always have to take charge? 302 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:49,240 "You do this, you calculate, you..." 303 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,400 I said: "John Doe, use the thing or you get zilch." 304 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:54,880 And he used one and it worked... 305 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:59,240 You know? I can't understand why you don't dare. 306 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:04,280 Is it about self-confidence or do you feel somehow... I don't know. 307 00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:07,280 Maybe I was raised wrong. Could be. 308 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,160 If you feel relaxed in the relationship, 309 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:13,800 all you have to do is smile and say: 310 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:15,760 "Hey, John Doe, this or that." 311 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:17,440 For others, it's hard. 312 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,200 They want to ask but fear being laughed at, 313 00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:21,160 and the like, 314 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,040 so they don't ask and they hold back. 315 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:28,040 Let's turn this around. For example, you tell a guy... 316 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:30,720 Say, you'd told me, when I was 16, 17: 317 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:32,400 "Use the thing or else." 318 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,440 It would have stopped me for several years. 319 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:37,600 I wouldn't have tried again, OK? 320 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:39,920 I don't want to be like my parents. 321 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:42,680 When I have children, I'll do things differently. 322 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:44,600 Start changing now, 323 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,880 by starting to change with your partner. 324 00:18:48,360 --> 00:18:52,000 More importantly, with AIDS, we have the possibility 325 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:55,360 to prevent it through our own initiative. 326 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,000 Do you have... No, not with... 327 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,480 Not in the same proportion as with AIDS. 328 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,960 We need to talk about the emotional part of sex, 329 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:23,280 and about sexual responsibility. 330 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,160 It's about getting close to another human being, 331 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:29,880 allowing both sides to hold their own, 332 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:31,920 and reach compromises. 333 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:34,360 But you need to learn it first. 334 00:19:56,120 --> 00:19:58,080 It was difficult to find 335 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,160 an infected person ready to talk on camera. 336 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:03,040 Too many of us 337 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:05,760 reject infected people out of ignorance 338 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:07,520 and intolerance. 339 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:10,920 A sad chapter of our research. 340 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:14,520 I felt inhibited too at first. 341 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:16,680 I was afraid my questions 342 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:17,840 would hurt. 343 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:22,560 You told me that you were infected in October last year. 344 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:24,000 What was that like? 345 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:30,360 Well first, as for everybody surely, there's a shock, isn't there? 346 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:32,840 First, you don't really understand. 347 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:37,640 If you're a bit sensitive, you want to harm yourself. 348 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,880 There were suicidal thoughts. 349 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,440 A few days later... 350 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:46,920 - I got the flu. - The flu? 351 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:48,440 Yes, the flu. 352 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:53,200 So you're sitting here all alone, nobody's here, 353 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:55,440 and you fight with yourself. 354 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:57,480 This could be the end. 355 00:20:58,680 --> 00:20:59,840 I have my fears, 356 00:21:00,120 --> 00:21:03,000 my aspirations and stuff, of course, 357 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:04,720 but I'm still saying: 358 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:10,440 "You're still alive. You're infected, that's serious. 359 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,400 "Continue to hope for a cure." 360 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:18,600 It's the biggest hope you can have although it hasn't materialised yet. 361 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,440 Why didn't you protect yourself, 362 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:23,360 I mean, with a condom? 363 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:30,120 Well, I knew a lot about it, how to protect yourself, the like, 364 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,600 but you don't walk around 365 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,160 thinking about it all day. 366 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,080 Maybe when you start a relationship, 367 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:44,160 maybe you want to have some "hot" moments. 368 00:21:44,360 --> 00:21:47,200 You don't think, and then suddenly it happens. 369 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:49,920 Of course, I'd act differently today. 370 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:52,880 I haven't told my parents, 371 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,000 because I want to see them as they are. 372 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,360 I'm sure that if I told them, 373 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,560 they would look at me differently, 374 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:03,880 with pity. 375 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:09,000 I'm still their son for them, and so it shall remain. 376 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:13,080 They'll learn about it when, let's say, sadly, 377 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:14,400 it's too late. 378 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,840 I can imagine that it will bring them down, 379 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,640 but from my point of view, it's the best way. 380 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:22,640 Really? 381 00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:27,200 Don't you think your parents could be good allies for you, 382 00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:29,440 precisely in that situation? 383 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,120 I know my mother would be for me. 384 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,320 I have a very good ally, my life partner. 385 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:38,520 I can really talk openly 386 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:40,400 about everything with him. 387 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,280 But it's true, you do need an ally. 388 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,120 What did you think were the pros and cons 389 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:51,800 of accepting this interview for a film? 390 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,240 For me, it's an opportunity to say 391 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,560 that this disease 392 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,400 isn't a disgusting one, 393 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,520 that it's really here, and that we need to try 394 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:08,760 to fight it with all the means currently available. 395 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,960 Be it by using condoms to protect ourselves 396 00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:14,800 or through partner selection. 397 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:17,240 I'd like to say 398 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,040 that I always looked for stable relationships. 399 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,360 I would advise other people to do the same, 400 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,400 if they're currently looking for a new friend. 401 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,880 Really talk with them first. 402 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:36,320 Build a trusting relationship, don't go to bed straight away. 403 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:37,720 I'd like to think 404 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:40,600 that after a while, you're so strong 405 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,520 that you can say: "Let's do the test together, 406 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:45,480 "let's go." 407 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:50,280 It demonstrates that it's real love and not just 408 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:51,960 any relationship. 409 00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:58,840 I don't know what the film 410 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:00,760 will trigger in viewers. 411 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,560 I can only say how I feel at the end of this project. 412 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:07,320 Maybe we shouldn't turn 413 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:09,440 to clichés where love is concerned. 414 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,720 I want to love and be loved. 415 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:13,840 Without fear or a bad conscience, 416 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,120 without blaming myself and others. 417 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,360 Maybe the first step is to ask myself: 418 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,040 "What do I really want?" 419 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:23,800 "What matters to me?" 420 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,760 My sexuality is part of me. 421 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,240 It can't be better than I am. 422 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,000 A FILM FROM THE DEUTSCHES HYGIENE MUSEUM 423 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,280 IN THE GERMAN DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC 424 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:04,880 Subtitles: Élisabeth Fuchs